'Don't know what's on Manmohan's mind'

Hours before the final meeting of the joint drafting committee on Tuesday, Anna Hazare spoke to MiD DAY on a range of issues, from fasting as a weapon of change to the positives of being vegetarian

Ahead of the crucial last meeting with the government for finalising the draft of the Lokpal Bill, the anti-corruption crusader was anything but tensed. With his voter ID card in the front pocket of his kurta in case anyone needs to know his identity, Anna Hazare said he is satisfied with the support his movement got from the youth. He spoke to Amit Kumar in detail on how he adheres to Gandhian philosophy to fight corruption.

Q. Are you sure you will get the Lokpal you want?
I am absolutely sure I will get the Lokpal I want. I will not rest till there is a strong Lokpal.

Q. Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has said in an interview that fasting is an outdated method of protest. What is your reaction?
It is his belief and I do not agree with him.

Q. Even Home Minister P Chidamabaram has said that in no country laws are made by sitting on fast.
He (Chidambaram) forgot that fasting as a tool of protest had been a trend even before Gandhi. I can't believe that he doesn't know this!

Q. It seems Karnataka Lokayukta Santosh Hegde is moving away from your group?
No, it is not true. He is coming to Delhi to attend today's (Tuesday's) meeting.

Q. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh hasn't spoken a word during the entire Lokpal controversy.
I wonder what's in his (Manmohan Singh) mind now. We are unable to fathom it. Once he had promised to bring a strong Lokpal Bill.

Q. The world knows about your fasts. But we would want to know about your daily diet. What keeps you going strong at your age?
I like to eat simple vegetarian food. I believe such food helps you to be humble and makes your thought process simple and pure.

Q. Some civil society members seem to be suggesting that nothing good is happening in the country. Hasn't there been a lot of development in the country?
I am not against development, but it must not be at the cost of the poor and the weaker sections of the society. The government must give options to people so that they can make a living.

Q. How much has Gandhian philosophy impacted your life?
Gandhiji spoke on many things and I have been able to implement only a few of them. We need to replicate a model of the village parliament (Gram Sabha) in every state to make our democracy stronger. Gandhiji never dreamt of Parliament the way it functions today. It is the Gram Sabhas that should be empowered. No one talks about them. They are the smallest units of governance. We cannot curb corruption until Gram Sabhas are given decision-making powers. Real development in the country can happen only when villages are self sufficient and empowered.

Q. According to you what are the main reasons for corruption?
The main reason for corruption is centralisation of power. The current Parliament and the state legislatures feel they own the country. There should be a legal framework to undertake land acquisition without any protest and power should be decentralised to gram sabhas. The village parliament's opinion needs to be sought on whether mining should be done in their village. Why are locals not involved? Involve them and you'll see a corruption-free country.

Q. How can we really fight corruption?
See how the whole country came together in support of the Lokpal Bill. In the same manner people will have to unite if they want to fight the corruption prevailing in our system. The leaders do not fear demonstrations or rallies, but they fear losing power. People of the country should come together to create that fear.

Q. There are speculations that you could become the next President of India. Even APJ Abdul Kalam became President without having a political background.
I am a social activist and the mission that I have undertaken is so big that I am not able to handle it. So I will not be able to handle a post like the President of India. I like doing social work. A constitutional post may not help me in that.

'Fast' forward
Government and civil society exercise to work out an agreed draft of the Lokpal Bill ended in failure on Tuesday evening after which Anna Hazare announced that he will go ahead with his fast from August 16 to "teach the government a lesson". After nine meetings spread over two months, the joint drafting committee of the two sides concluded its deliberations on a note of disagreement with the government asserting that it could not allow creation of a parallel structure which would be "answerable to nobody". The government draft ruled out scrutiny of Prime Minister, higher judiciary and the conduct of MPs in Parliament by the Lokpal. However, the government draft proposes several critical powers conferring quasi-judicial status to Lokpal besides powers to attach assets, independent prosecution and investigation machinery with full police powers under the proposed ombudsman. Coming out of the meeting, Union Minister, Kapil Sibal said, "We want to have strong Lokpal Bill but there need to be checks and balances. We can't afford to have parallel government."

It Hardly matters: Mamata Banerjee
Inclusion of Prime Minister or Chief Justice of India in the ambit of Lokpal "hardly matters" in the fight against corruption, West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee said on Tuesday. "It is not a big question...whether Prime Minister or Chief Justice is included, it hardly matters. Do you think that inclusion of one person will strengthen the fight against corruption?" she asked. However, she also said that in case the Prime Minister was included in the ambit of Lokpal, "I have no problem. I am with the UPA." To another question, Banerjee said "if anyone says all politicians are corrupt, then let them join politics." Pressing for a comprehensive package to check the menace of corruption at all levels, Trinamool Congress chief demanded that the money illegally stashed abroad should be brought back. She also suggested that electoral reform measures be carried out by the Election Commission and said state funding of polls would go a long way to curb the use of black money in the electoral process.