Mumbai theatre talk: Actor Asmit Pathare’s play ‘Us & Them’ attempts to deconstruct nationalism

At a time when social disharmony fostered by political binaries - progressive and conservative or left and right wing - continue to affect people's daily lives in real-life and in the virtual atmosphere, actor Asmit Pathare's play ‘Us & Them' attempts to explore fundamental questions that puzzle many. These include people's understanding of nationalism, othering and social discriminatory beliefs, deeply entrenched in the Indian society.

Inspired by Professor Nivedita Menon's lectures on nationalism at Jawaharlal Nehru University's Freedom Square in 2016, the play offers a metaphorical commentary on the polarisation and othering of communities based on political, regional, religion, caste and other social factors, which have only affected the quality of human lives across the country in recent years.

Allowing the audiences to interpret the play in their own way, while reflecting on the idea of ‘nation as people vs nation as land' in a garden setting, Pathare presents an opportunity for people to entangle the complexities of identity and oneness in their surroundings.

First performed in 2019, ‘Us & Them' is Pathare's first and only theatrical work until now. Mid-Day Online spoke to him to know more about the play.

How did you conceptualise the play?

Menon's lecture left me excited about the idea of presenting something academic theatrically. I was also reading other academicians at the time and Arundhati Roy's ‘Walking with the comrades' and collection of essays ‘Listening to Grasshoppers: Field Notes on Democracy' left a deep impact on me. The objective was to marry both fields, academics and performance, while keeping the theatricality within it alive.

There is an evident division of people, between the progressives and the conservatives and our current reality is that these two factions are now warring against each other. I wanted to engage with the other side and have a conversation about how the discourse stands against what we agreed to live as a society with in 1950, when the Constitution was written.

Masses, as a whole, do not get entrenched by nuances of the values enshrined in the Constitution of India; instead they get excited by emotion. So the idea was to bring this academic discourse and beat it into a form, which is palatable emotionally. Because of the overtly intellectual nature of these arguments, people do not want to engage with them and I wanted to make these progressive ideas accessible to people.

How relevant is the play in today's time?

When we were growing up in the 90s, we were fed the idea of nationalism masked under the concept of patriotism in schools. We were always sold on that idea of loving one's country. And that, if you love your country, there is always an enemy of the country and that other person or ‘enemy' will snatch your country from you. These ideas were our earliest encounters with the concept of ‘othering'. And over the years, in current times, this feeling has encompassed the whole nation like never before. Prior to 2014, it was merely simmering inside. But, the current government's policies have brought it to the fore and it has become more brazen now.

And while the state benefits from it, what are the options left with the people? Your basic needs are unmet and while you experience injustice, you've been told that the reason you've been dealt an unfair hand is because there is someone out there who's been dealt a better hand, thereby encouraging the thoughts of eliminating the other.

In this play, I metaphorically deal with this idea of othering and the ways it is used against people. It was also about how mass perception is kind of dealt with, mainly by inducing fear, creating confusion and chaos among the people. This is also why a Pink Floyd song ‘US and Them' inspired the name of the play.

How important it is for artistes to reflect on these issues and discourse in current times?

Not just this discourse, but any socio political discourse. I can't say about other artistes, because every artiste has their own mode of expression and areas of interest depending on their upbringing, social circumstances and challenges that they have faced.

I personally find it important to speak about this because it bothers me. Over the past eight years, I've seen a clear demarcation between my beliefs and of the people closest to me - my family and friends and these contradictions over social and political views started affecting me. It also shattered myths for me in terms of whom I thought my loved ones were and does your love for them justify their views? And whether these disagreements should grow to an extent that it starts affecting everyday communication? I realised these majoritarian beliefs such as taking pride in religious identity and marginalising communities really run deep. These deep contradictions about my own people convinced and prompted me to speak about it, which led me to writing the play.

Do you think theatre is as powerful as a medium today to create an impact or initiate a counter narrative?

I do feel as a medium it is, but if we talk about the economics of it, then it might fall short. Because of its sheer limited reach due to advent of the film and the way internet has made it easier to share content, going and watching a play involves a lot of planning and effort. So theatre as of now, especially Bombay, is meant for theatre lovers. It is not really remained a form of social change where you could penetrate into society and try to think about change. Folk performative forms like Tamasha (folk form of Marathi theatre) in Maharashtra managed to do that, because they did not wait for the audience, they went to the audience.

If one is thinking of theatre as that elaborate as a medium or a space, then the folk forms definitely have a much impactful history and even forms. They also pick out sentiments which come to you with a force as compared to what is being made in urban areas or when it is made for the educated elite.

Here, the discourse gets more intellectual according to the audience. But, theatre's impact as a form it is there, except that in comparison to films and because of market forces, which are much more in favour of cinema and film content, the impact is limited.

Also read: Theatre of the mind

How was the reception to the play in the past?

We opened at Prithvi theatre in September 2019, where we received a good response. Mainly, the response has been mixed. There were some regular theatre goers also, who did not like the show. The biggest comment we have received so far is that ‘great you are talking about it, somebody needs to do this'. But, that does not say anything about the play or its merit. The fact that it is relevant and topical does not make it special. The way it treats the subject would be something I would like to hear about going forward. That has not yet happened so much. It has also got to do with the form of the play and with the upcoming shows we are trying to make it more accessible.

How has the play evolved since then?

The play at that time was in a much academic form and verbose. Over the course of time, we have tried to dilute it making it more accessible, crisper and impactful. It is in Hindi and we have tried to cut out the repetitions and long scene. The play had a quality of having a roundabout way of reaching certain conclusions in putting forth the argument. We have improvised on that making it more pact, which will give people a sense of revelation rather than just chewing on the overall idea. In the end, the play being relevant has no value if it is not reaching the audience.

Venue: Prithvi Theatre, Juhu

Date: Saturday, July 16 - Sunday, July 17

Time: 12 pm on both days

Cost of tickets: Rs 300

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